Right To Repair laws - What say you?

[dirtyoldman]

Automakers have their rights to intelectual property, that's a good reason for the patents. But not allowing a customer to know how to deal with maintenance procedures is quite abusive, specially after the warranty is expired. I actually understand that there are also some legal issues, since it's "better" to have the customer wrapped around their fingers than leaving them do a wrong procedure which would compromise the vehicle's overall safety, lead to an accident and subsequently a lawsuit...

This conversation is about providing the info to independent repair shops, not consumers directly.

All the independants we deliver parts to subscribe to ALLDATA and use it all day,every day.They have access to almost all vehicles manufactured today with the exception being BMW.There may be some things that the mfgr's don't release to ALLDATA but I suspect not much

 

[daddy]

Automakers have their rights to intelectual property, that's a good reason for the patents. But not allowing a customer to know how to deal with maintenance procedures is quite abusive, specially after the warranty is expired. I actually understand that there are also some legal issues, since it's "better" to have the customer wrapped around their fingers than leaving them do a wrong procedure which would compromise the vehicle's overall safety, lead to an accident and subsequently a lawsuit...

This conversation is about providing the info to independent repair shops, not consumers directly.

All the independants we deliver parts to subscribe to ALLDATA and use it all day,every day.They have access to almost all vehicles manufactured today with the exception being BMW.There may be some things that the mfgr's don't release to ALLDATA but I suspect not much

I bet that "not much" is pretty damn important or this wouldn't be an issue, I wouldn't think.

 

[dirtyoldman]

Automakers have their rights to intelectual property, that's a good reason for the patents. But not allowing a customer to know how to deal with maintenance procedures is quite abusive, specially after the warranty is expired. I actually understand that there are also some legal issues, since it's "better" to have the customer wrapped around their fingers than leaving them do a wrong procedure which would compromise the vehicle's overall safety, lead to an accident and subsequently a lawsuit...

This conversation is about providing the info to independent repair shops, not consumers directly.

All the independants we deliver parts to subscribe to ALLDATA and use it all day,every day.They have access to almost all vehicles manufactured today with the exception being BMW.There may be some things that the mfgr's don't release to ALLDATA but I suspect not much

I bet that "not much" is pretty damn important or this wouldn't be an issue, I wouldn't think.

In the opening paragraph it says ''repair tools & software that are unavailable on the open market'',guess that covers ''not much''

 

[Stumpuller6.5]

I don`t see it a huge problem/deal personally, BUT, if the information was released, it would slow up traffic in dealership service departments for sure, but most electrical repairs, which are most of the issues these days, would still require dealer only diagnostic equipment certainly not available to the public.

Myself, am only comfortable doing mechanical type repairs/fixes on my newer vehicles, which might only be brakes, oil changes and drive line/steering components. If it were an electrical issue beyond a light bulb or headlight/tail light problem it goes to the dealership, they have got the factory equipment to fix it quickly.

It will have effects on dealership revenues mostly due to parts sales, they make money on parts, and not so much on labor charges.

Also would the release of this information allow aftermarket parts companies to get a head start on OEM knock off parts???? hmmmmm....

Tough vote here....

 

[daddy]

I don`t see it a huge problem/deal personally, BUT, if the information was released, it would slow up traffic in dealership service departments for sure, but most electrical repairs, which are most of the issues these days, would still require dealer only diagnostic equipment certainly not available to the public.

Myself, am only comfortable doing mechanical type repairs/fixes on my newer vehicles, which might only be brakes, oil changes and drive line/steering components. If it were an electrical issue beyond a light bulb or headlight/tail light problem it goes to the dealership, they have got the factory equipment to fix it quickly.

It will have effects on dealership revenues mostly due to parts sales, they make money on parts, and not so much on labor charges.

Also would the release of this information allow aftermarket parts companies to get a head start on OEM knock off parts???? hmmmmm....

Tough vote here....

Then they are paying their techs waaaay too much.


Yes, I realize they wrap a lot of other overhead into labor charges, but still...

 

[ProZach]

personally, I would love the opportunity to have a licensed mechanic look at my vehicles electronics when they're having trouble rather than having to worry about the arm and a leg costs that are associated with an PCM or ECU reflash.
but that's just my desire as far as the subject goes, legally I say they're entitled to the revenue, i'm just getting sick of having to save up so long with my job whenever I need a dealership to look at something like the electronics.

 

[Stumpuller6.5]

I don`t see it a huge problem/deal personally, BUT, if the information was released, it would slow up traffic in dealership service departments for sure, but most electrical repairs, which are most of the issues these days, would still require dealer only diagnostic equipment certainly not available to the public.

Myself, am only comfortable doing mechanical type repairs/fixes on my newer vehicles, which might only be brakes, oil changes and drive line/steering components. If it were an electrical issue beyond a light bulb or headlight/tail light problem it goes to the dealership, they have got the factory equipment to fix it quickly.

It will have effects on dealership revenues mostly due to parts sales, they make money on parts, and not so much on labor charges.

Also would the release of this information allow aftermarket parts companies to get a head start on OEM knock off parts???? hmmmmm....

Tough vote here....

Then they are paying their techs waaaay too much.


Yes, I realize they wrap a lot of other overhead into labor charges, but still...

True Techs are making more and more, especially at dealers, look what they have to put up with! , Their gravy is in parts, they make 40 points easy, some i`ve seen 1000x cost! All depends on what it is and its popularity.

IF this happens, things will change and they will find a way to survive, manufacturers are always going to need a certified repair center for warranties, and places to repair trade ins to snag more money from peoples pockets!

 

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

I don`t see it a huge problem/deal personally, BUT, if the information was released, it would slow up traffic in dealership service departments for sure, but most electrical repairs, which are most of the issues these days, would still require dealer only diagnostic equipment certainly not available to the public.

An uncle of mine can spend a few minutes checking an electronic module with a multimeter, but he wouldn't spend 2 cents for a random stealership dude to scan it with those computers

After all, it's nothing that we can say "oh what a perfect fix" but as long as it works and costs less, it's effective

 

[Tucson Z60]

I don't think they should give up proprietary information. In all the years of automotive manufacturing mechanics on the outside of manufactures have had to figure out ways to repair our automobiles. Now in todays world some people are wanting things the easy and free way. There are companies like Mitchell and other pay to play organizations to get data from that is not available to all of us. Go to SEMA and you will see many companies selling product and as stated all products don't support all brands. Some are not willing to pay the entry fee....like Alldata and BMW or the manufacture thinks they are risk of loosing proprietary data to unsecured systems or history of "their" data ending up in places like this forum.

I work for a defense contractor and even though we build a product for the US Government "our customer" and they may own the drawings, engineering and some tooling and manufacturing materials they do not own all the process, methods, assembly planning/instructions, and many other items. While they do get repair data and instructions there are just some things that can not be done outside a qualified repair facility. We compete with Gov owned facilities for Depot repair and upgrade contracts, we even train them and release some data but it's all covered by contracts etc. When they get good at they have learned our methods and ways we compete with them....we win some and loose some and then the competition comes up again they loose some and we win some.

The point here is the work is getting done right and works when expected. I think in the automotive world dealerships and Auto companies can release data, train people, sell data to aftermarket companies to release on pay to play basis bu no matter what happens you can't guarantee quality work or repairs even with the supplied data and you will never keep the masses happy as everyone wants everything for free or cheap it's just our nature.

Buyer beware make informed decisions on what repairs your willing to pay more for and those you will not or can even do your self. It's not a missile but a improper repair for instance to the ABS system can kill people also. Research your mechanic like you would a DR for some repairs.

 

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

I think in the automotive world dealerships and Auto companies can release data, train people, sell data to aftermarket companies to release on pay to play basis bu no matter what happens you can't guarantee quality work or repairs even with the supplied data and you will never keep the masses happy as everyone wants everything for free or cheap it's just our nature.

Not everybody really wants everything for free, the point is about the often abusive price for service at the dealerships.