i was thinking flat top pistons...but this is a oreillys rebuild so id have to guess its the 69cc which would raise compression but choke in the higher rpms compared to the 76cc right? I ran the numbers on those heads before an i beleive they were 194 heads---any way of knowing which heads they are. The guy said he didnt think it had a double roll chain either but did so who knows i guess unless i tear it apart...but like uou said the higher compression one would be the better of the two-i was thinking of yaking out that 350 and putting it on a stand as a back up and tossing the 63 350/305 an tranny into the pink trk then sale it...well i know there is really no substute for cubit inch but mathmatical there would be 40 more horses in the 454 vs that 350 but the 350 would wine out faster---that is all things being equal. The cam im considering for the 454 is a 112lobe-268 duration-525 lift and good up to 6500rpm BUT the one in the 350 now has more duration(288) closer lobe(110) and its lift is about max for a 350 with hydralic flat tappet(480)and its good up to 6200 and i could go one step up on cam for the 350-110lobe-292 duration-501lift good up to 6500rpm
Yea on the double roll chain i was just saying the "guy"said this...an it was this..nothing to due with compression. Don't the stroke determine how fast a engine wines out? I guess im having to be schooled sorry. I hear ya on the "realistic" just estamating "what if"-was thinking a 350 wine out faster and have a higher rpm range and that if all things where equal 40 ponies can be made up one way or the other. Yea tell me about it you can make any engine due what you want with the right set up-my bro had a "307"engine in a cutless an got it under 13 in the quarter...i like 350 and 454 so im not being partial nor intending to-ok. But with 40 ponies diffrence yet the 350 had the better cam???The heads on the 454 are not the peanut heads but the large oval.
I was saying if you take two identical vehicles with the same wind drag,transmission stall gear ratio etc---horse power an torque play hand in hand to make "power"-torque is not rated till you get to a certain horse power. We can't say the 454 wines out quicker because it has a lower red line if the 350s crank is turing at a faster rate. Sure the 454 red line is 5800 according to its stroke and the 350 is 7200 according to it stroke an anything past those red lines are making the engine do what it can't. If the 454 just hit its red line and the 350 had just hit its red line then the 350 got to 7200 when the 454 got to 5800 an there is 1400rpm between the two an there is alot of horse power an torque in those 1400rpm that i don't think a 454 can overcome within its 0 to 5800red line. The advantage the 454 has its a power horse and can "be made" to go up alot higher in horse power and torgue-but the 350 can two. Im saying the 350 would win in a even race because it will wine out faster because of its crank and generate more horse power an torque through how fast it wines out and its red line. Yes the 454 has a 100 more ft. lbs. of torque over the 350 But that 1400rpm diffrence between them allows the 350 to be able to genrate around 140 more horses and you know it takes less torque to move at righer rpms-the 454 would get a 350 off the line because of its torque but mid range an top end the 350 will pull out ahead. The 350 has won more races in competion than any engine and there is a reason for it. Think of a motorcycle an a car racing---that motorcycle is a higher revving engine an has less torque an horse power-sure it has a weight advantage but when you do the math an match them together lb for lb and everthing even the bike will win because its capable of wineing out faster and able to go up higher rpm. Don't get me wrong im not brow beating the 454 because if you want 700 horse power...the 454 can do it with ease and thats how it can beat the 350 by simply horse power and torque that it is capable of producing-lets say the 350 limit is 500 and the 454 is 700 there you have it not only would the 454 have the 350 off the line but all the way through because it "overpowers"the 350. The cam for a 350 that gots it about maxed out with hydralic lifters is darn near a rv cam on a 454 in comparisen-no not saying you can put a 350 cam in a 454 either. Yes torque moves a car but you have to have the horse power to get that torque a going for it to do any good.I wasnt talking about the two engines sitting on a stand-i was talking about a realistic applation between the two. The 327 has a 7500 red line an it wines out so quick you better start off in second or you might just red line. I have a engineer bud who is a old timer who use to build engines for racing pacificly and this info is what he past along to me. Said 454 are for pulling an 350 is for racing an choice of race engine was the 327 because of its stroke. But like you said throw money at anything and it outrun anything. What im saying is if your going to throw money at anything throw it at the one that all things being equal will win which is determined by stroke. If you took a 454 crank and a 350 crank and matched them in how many turns they would make in a race you'd be surprise how many more turns a 350 will make in comparison to the 454 which makes up the torque and horse power over the 454. Then see at what point in the race they red line and shifted and who got there first...lets just say if the 350 turned twice as many times as the 454 then thats twice as much horse power an torque put out which overcomes the 454 one turn---an again we are talking about all things being equal with the set up of the vehicles...This is just my opion-no brow beating intended to the 454-i have them both and wouldnt give up either.Just not understanding clear about the bigger is better unless we are talking about the ability that they are "able" to do i.e.500 for the 350/700 for the 454 thing.If the crank is turing faster so is cam and everything else in the 350...The 454 will need that 700 horses to beat a 500 horse 350. And yes i know a 454 can be made to have more than 700 horses and the 350 more than 500 those are just a figure in comparison to be able to compare the two.If you take a stock 350 with 160 horses and a stock 454 with 250 horses by the time you get to there peak in what they rated in horse power and torque the 350 will seem to act like it has "70 more horses" over the 454 at that point because of how much faster it got to its peak power stock in comparison to the 454 "if" the 350 had turn twice to the 454 turn. And that would mean the 350 would be producing 30% more over the 454 which would mean when the 350 was at its red line 7200 the 454 would be at about 5000rpm and 800rpm more to go to get to its redline in the which the 350 would be in its 2nd gear and 800 rpms up in its power band by the time the 454 shifted into 2nd and the 350 would be always 800rpms up higher in rpms through the whole race in its power band.Maybe all this math an calculations arent exact...but simply if during a race if the 350 would turn 2 times to the 454 one time then stock 350 that would have a 160horses would be as if it had 320horses in comparsion to the stock 454 250 hoses one turn---yes i know one turn of each engine doesnt mean it produced said amout of horses-but at some point the 350 will turn 2 times to the 454 1 time and at that point the 350 will have 320 horses and the 454 250 horses ratio-if in a race only the 350 just gets to turn 2 times to the 454 1 time then it at one point past the 454 250 horses by a 320 horse out put an that facter alone diffrence is 70 horses whitch means it would be almost a second faster. For the 454 to beat the 350 the 454 has to make up 75horses in its one turn to the 350s 2 turns.Maybe i don't know what the heck im talking about-im not a engineer nor a mathattenchion it just seems this way by what i see in this puzzle...if you take the 350 up to its red line 7200rpm and it was able to hit that 7200rpm in all three gears(1-2-3)you would of hit 7200rpms 3 times while the 454 would of hit 5040 rpms those 3 times so7200 times 3 equals 21600 and the 5040 times the 454 would of hit in those 3 times would be 15120 now if you subtract 21600 an 15120 you come up with 6480. The 6480 "is"what the 350 would have over the 454 which would mean the 350 would of had been almost through a entire gear and moved on to its next gear before the 454.OOOO!!! LOL! I JUST FIRGURED IT OUT!!! the 454 puts out more than the 350 and about 8 times more in this case if you take a 160 horsepower 350 to 7200 an a 250 horsepower 454 to where they would be in a race with the 350 being at 7200rpm the 454 would be at 5040rpm-now if take the 160 times it by 3 red lines of 7200 for the 350 and 250 times 3 hits at 5040rpms you come up with 3780000 horses output BUT you do with a 160 at 3 hits of 7200 and you come up with 3456000horses output an the diffrence between them is 324000horse output in "favor" of the 454. Sure the 350 will wind out faster and get to its next gear faster...but the "brute force"of the 454 will beat it.The 454 puts out more horses and therefore more torque which means it has more power even over the advantage the 350 has over it.Like Hot Rod said...-so sorry so long.
